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User talk:SjorskingmaWikistad/Sofasian
Isnt this Saint Yorissian? Pierlot McCrooke 14:19, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :Nope. Looks like it, doesn't it? I still need to work further on Saint Yoríssian as well. SjorskingmaWikistad 14:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Maybe some Chinese influence as well due to the large number of Chinese Sofasis? Semyon E. Breyev 15:47, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :::I used to make conlangs all the time, but it was too much work so I gave up. I like this one, though the artificial introduction of Latin grammar seems a little strange. Semyon E. Breyev 15:52, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::I know. But I like cases and declensions. More languages have them. SjorskingmaWikistad 16:10, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::In the sample text it looks a bit odd. Wy (we) in the accusative is root+on = wyon. SjorskingmaWikistad 16:11, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::::It would just make more sense to say the cases were borrowed from a living language such as Finnish or Turkish or Russian. Semyon E. Breyev 16:16, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::::"If you are content with the old world, try to preserve it, it is very sick and cannot hold out much longer" - why not try something less western? Or would that lead us too far? 16:20, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::It seems like a very regular language, if case suffixes are applied to pronouns like nouns, a bit like Turkish or Esperanto. @Yuri: Swotised - Chinese influence. Semyon E. Breyev 16:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :Maybe you could add the Sofasian translation of the English examples under the part 'Cases'? 16:33, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, of course. Anyone further ideas (and the system of cases is not particularly Latin, it's used in all indo-European languages, even English!)SjorskingmaWikistad 18:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC) :::I know that, but Sofasian's case system seems particularly like Latin Semyon E. Breyev 20:54, July 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::Dutch is an analytic language and thus has lost most of its cases, personal pronouns are the only exception. Just saying that there is a huge difference between the various Indo-European languages. 06:29, July 9, 2010 (UTC) :::::I know, I know. Synthetic gradually changes to analytic. SjorskingmaWikistad 11:48, July 9, 2010 (UTC) Suggestion Perhaps you could also add a section about literature and language preservation (f.e. evening classes or language institutes like Oceana Language Council, probably Cansal Iaethor Sofasyeor in this case)? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:06, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :That's a good idea! SjorskingmaWikistad 11:17, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :: :) What does the verb lopen mean btw? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :::What do you think yourself :) SjorskingmaWikistad 12:58, July 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::You can tell me :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:37, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::Same as in Dutch. SjorskingmaWikistad 16:44, July 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::That makes sense :D --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:35, July 11, 2010 (UTC) Okay What to do with this beast? Anyone able to speak it available? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:09, February 17, 2012 (UTC) nope =] Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:10, February 17, 2012 (UTC) This kind of sticks out a bit. It's not the most realistic conlang (even by Oceana/NK Russian standards :P) and doesn't even fit Clymeni culture, which is Chinese-American. Yet I don't just want to delete a big page like this, especially as a lot of Sjors' work was removed in the past. Would one of the new wikinations, perhaps, like to adopt it? :P --Semyon 11:18, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :Hardly linked, so I'm not contra. Would be a shame to delete it though. If nobody wants it, we might want to move it to Sjors's userpage. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:38, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ::I was actually hoping to promote this language in the state, just like you did with Oceana, but I don't speak it. I was also thinking, why not just rework the language to be, well, better. The Chinese thing can be removed (apart from major names) and just focus on Sofasian. HORTON11: • 16:06, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :::I'm rather contra removing the Chinese element. It's strongly integrated (cf all the Buddhists in Clymene), the name Clymene/Asian Island, and names of places such as Beijing Park), while Sofasian is barely mentioned at all. --Semyon 16:40, September 14, 2012 (UTC) ::::Well I think we can accomodate both. As Sofasian is not a working language (unlike Oceana or Barzuna in Brunant), we really only need a few words (maybe phrases) for place names and minor translations. HORTON11: • 16:50, September 14, 2012 (UTC) :::::It's not that practical. And it raises an important question: why is Oceana official and Sofasian not? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:15, September 15, 2012 (UTC) Specific problems Here are some specific things I don't like about Sofasian: *It's based extensively upon Welsh. No, I don't hate Wales (well, not that much :P) but there is no history of Welsh immigration to Lovia. Furthermore, if 'Dutch, Danish, German, Italian and English' were all spoken in Clymene, why on earth did they start using Welsh to communicate? Especially since the Welsh immigrants would almost certainly have spoken English (Welsh was a minority language in Wales by 1911.) *It's unrealistic (1). Just looking at the pronouns, I see a rather arbitrary combination of Dutch, German and English. In a realistic language, all pronouns come from the same language, because it's the most basic vocabulary which understandably doesn't change very much. (OK, by this standard English is unrealistic, but ON had hundreds of years of influence on Anglo-Saxon England, the two languages were very similar anyway, and ON in the end still only contributed a single pronoun.) *It's unrealistic (2). There's Latin in it, 'nuff said. *There's no Chinese in it, which is absurd because Chinese-Lovians are the major ethnic group in Clymene. *It's not at all integrated into the wiki, as you can see for yourself by a quick search, and even then most of the results just use 'Sofasian' as an adjective or a ethonym. *Six cases, when all the mother languages are relatively isolating. There are more minor things which I could list but I won't. --Semyon 11:13, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :I repeat my stance: shame to delete it, should be moved to user page. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:22, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::That is my stance too, in case it wasn't clear. --Semyon 11:57, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::In that case Clymene kind of loses its language. Are we then going to make a new one or not? 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:37, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::::Well, it has never been Clymene's language (not seriously enacted). So, technically, the old clear situation remains. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:41, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::::I said "kind of". 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:06, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::::::I personally am not opposed to a more Sino-Tibetan conlang, so if you want to, go ahead :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:28, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::::::In the early 20th century there was a significant majority of Americans/Europeans so it would make sense to base it on one of their languages (but no so much Welsh). But what if we fixed it up to make it a language spoken in Seven and Clymene, back when it was one state? HORTON11: • 13:40, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::Well, we already have Russian in Novosevensk and Kinley was very America-orientated. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:49, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::I'd say 30 years isn't long enough for a language to develop. I do have a page in my userspace that describes a pidgin spoken in the Northern Territory, which is quite fun for making up sentences. Personally I think just having Oceana as Lovia's only unique language is rather nice. --Semyon 13:52, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::If we delete Sofasian, I think we should delete Novosevenk Russian and just have the languages english and normal russian spoken in Novosevenk. Happy65 Talk CNP ''' 18:14, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::::The differences: Novosevensk Russian is nearly realistic (sorry Semyon, had to get back on this for what you said about Oceana :P), Sofasi is far from. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:29, November 21, 2012 (UTC) Informal poll Let's have a poll to see what people, broadly speaking, think about this issue. '''I support removal of this page from the main namespace (regardless of whether I think it should be deleted or moved to Sjors' userpage) * --Semyon 14:00, November 21, 2012 (UTC) * --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:13, November 21, 2012 (UTC) * 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:14, November 21, 2012 (UTC) * I would also like to greatly lower the amount of Chinese in Clymene. Down to 20-30%. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 17:49, November 21, 2012 (UTC) I support this page remaining in the main namespace (regardless of whether I support it remaining unchanged or whether it requires some reforms) *... --Semyon 14:00, November 21, 2012 (UTC) I will vote soon, but I want to have a think about it. Happy65 Talk CNP ''' ' 16:29, November 21, 2012 (UTC) See this is where is lose ALOT of faith in this wiki, and it discourages me from editing or making pages when someone who doesnt like the page or thinks its flawed can join up and say "No lets delete it." I could only imagine if we did the "New continent model" where we each controlled our own country, there would be edit wars aplenty Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:45, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :Actually, this makes me gain faith in this wiki. My philosophy is '''quality' and realism over the whims of the users, and in some cases, such as this, we are supporting that philosophy. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:13, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::Marcus: if someone wrote a long, thoughtful, well-written and integrated article about diplomatic exchanges between the King and aliens from K'thop who just landed in NC, then we'd be justified in deleting it. This is not such an extreme case, admittedly. But still, as a wiki we have standards which include realism, and if an article doesn't meet those standards and can't be made to meet them, deletion shouldn't be controversial. In this example, the problem is even smaller, because Sjors isn't active; if he was, I promise you there would be a lot more negotiation and compromise going on. :) --Semyon 19:16, November 21, 2012 (UTC)